HOW A "LIBERAL" MAKES USE OF THE SCRIPTURESLuther W. Martin, Rolla, Mo.

Having just completed approximately three hours of conversation with a young preacher, in which wediscussed the "current issues" that are splitting congregations here and there, I have decided to "jotdown" the points that remain uppermost in my mind.

One of the first points we considered, was that of churches supporting preachers in needy areas directly, rather than by the inefficient, unscriptural, and indirect method . . . the "sponsoring church" method. Of course, I insisted that 1 could give book,chapter and verse, wherein Paul was supported by other churches while preaching at Corinth ... "I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service" (II Cor. 11:8). Then I referred my young friend to Philippians 4:16... "For even in T hessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity." After giving these two passages, 1 sat back,thinking that I had given an approved example of how New Testament congregations directly supported the preaching of the gospel in needy fields. But my friend pointed out several failings in my supposed proof!

"First," he informed me, "you claim to use thesepassages as a pattern, yet you fail to accept ALL the pattern."

At this accusation, I gulped once, and spluttered; "What do you mean I don't accept ALL the pattern?"

To which he replied, "Well, this passage in Philippian treats of Philippi, sending support to anAPOSTLE, in a FOREIGN field. And the way youuse it as a pattern, you claim that it authorizes the direct support of an evangelist anywhere that's needy, and not even in a foreign country." He continued, "Then the scripture in II Corinthians, dealswith wages paid by several churches to an APOSTLE, rather than an evangelist, as you would apply it." He then concluded, "Therefore, you are failing to follow ALL of the example or pattern. And, since you fail to follow ALL the pattern, I don't see whyyou should accuse me and my brethren of failing tofollow a pattern when we send to Abilene in order to have the gospel preached on the radio somewhere else."

Well, to say the least, I was astonished; I didn't say so, but I wondered why Inspiration bothered to even have the New T estament written and preserved for us in the 20th century, insomuch as according to this manner of exegesis, it would instruct only those groups who had living apostles laboring with them.However, I did exclaim, "What, then, will you dowith Acts 20:7 ... wherein the disciples at Troasassembled on the first day of the week in order toobserve the Lord's Supper. The Apostle Paul wasthere to preach to them . . . but since we have noapostles living among us today, we then have no pattern or example for OUR observance of the Lord's Supper .. . is that your position ?"

My young preacher friend did not wish to shoulder the consequences of his position on the two passages first quoted in this article, when it was similarly applied to Acts 20:7. However, I predict that thenext logical step or position that must be taken bythose who reject the force of New Testament examples, is that of saying that neither is Acts 20:7 an example applicable to us, today.

Some years ago, brother W. C. Hammontree penned an article entitled, "Are You 'Liberal' or 'Conservative'?" In this treatise, brother Hammontree set forth in a concise way, the differences between the two approaches to the Scripture:

"THE CONSERVATIVE view on the subject of authority is that: (1) We must have divine authority for all religious acts and practices. (2) God's silence is negative — not consent. And (3) We aretaught by three means; command, approved example, and necessary inferences.

"The LIBERAL view on the subject of authority is that: (1) Examples of approved practices cannot be depended upon as furnishing "Bible authority" for any act or practice. (2) Since examples teachvery little, the absence of a pattern for such things as sponsoring churches, benevolence institutions, and cooperative arrangements under a single eldership does not restrict our liberty in devising andproviding such things." My young friend is obviously a "LIBERAL" . . . what are you??

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Through the years there are many things that cause me to marvel. Some of them are small in stature and some of them are great but they are constant sources of amazement, and with thereader's permission I want to call attention to someof them in this column. How many times in thecourse of a gospel meeting have you heard one of the brethren at the beginning of a service look out over the audience and announce to all present that the crowd is smaller than it was the preceding evening? T he statement that is classic is, "I don't believe ther e are as many her e tonight as wehad last night." For the life of me I never have been able to determine what this bold declaration is designed to accomplish. It does not add one person to the group assembled. It could not be helpful tothe ones present for they are there. All that it doesis throw a chill on the entire service and say ineffect that we are not as well situated tonight as we were last night. In addition to this chilling effect, too many times it is not true. When theaudience is counted it is f ound that ther e ar e as many or more in attendance and the same brother in private this time utters these words, "Well, thecrowd sure had me fooled." I remember one occasion shortly after coming to Florida a preacher made at length this kind of announcement and just after he was seated about half of the congregation came in. They had been detained by a draw bridge that was out of order and had to go another wayor wait until the bridge was back in working order. I do not believe that there is a great deal of profit in comparing crowds, and I know that this is true when an actual count has not been made. It adds nothing to the ser vices and simply places a cloud over the gathering. There is a time to rebuke brethren for not attending, but it seems to me thatthis should be done in their presence and not whenthey are not there to hear.

Again, I marvel that a song leader would takeit upon himself to change the invitation song after the sermon has been delivered. The preacher has many times put his entire heart into the sermon and with the view to persuade, for that is how preaching differs from simply teaching, and whenhe makes his appeal the song leader stands up andannounces to the congregation that we will sing number 136 instead of 247. It may be true that the latter number fits the lesson far better than the first and should have been chosen in the beginning, but look at the result. In the time that is lost the appeal of the sermon grows cold. In the materialistic task of finding the number minds are removed from the scriptures taught and in additionto this there will be a few who will not hear the new number and who will whisper to inquire of their neighbor. While we are thinking of matters of this kind I have always believed that ever y verse of an

invitation song should be sung unless announcement is made to the contrary in the beginning of a service. T his is a trying time for the man or womanwho is near the kingdom and many times they are not too sure of how long it will take them to reach the front and how long they have to decide. Itseems to me that if the entire song is sung all have a better opportunity.

I marvel that a congregation will go to all thework and expense of having a gospel meeting andnot have a list of those they hope to save. Manytimes great pains are taken to have every thing ready and in order but the very thing that themeeting is conducted to accomplish. T he time spent in making a list of lost men and women and spending the time and effort required to get them to theser vices is in many ways the most important part of all. I cannot remember, as I look back over the years, a single meeting failing when the brethren had men and women in mind that needed to obey the gospel and did what they could to encourage them. The day of simply announcing a gospel series and expect strangers to find the meeting house by themselves and obey the gospel with out encouragement is past. It may come again but it takes a personal contact from some one some where to even get people to come much less obey. We need tohave a plan for the

success of the meeting. Any plan that is

scriptural and manifests a true interest in the

lost will work if we work it. Brethren, we need to have some idea ofwhat we hope to accomplish in a gospel meeting and not have a meeting just because it is that time ofthe year. I marvel.

DEBATE TAPES

Dr. Albert Garner, president of Florida Baptist Institute and Seminary, and brother A. C. Grider of Meridian, Mississippi engaged in a discussion on the conditions of salvation and the apostasy questions in Wauchula, Florida city auditorium, January 18, 19, 21, 22, 1965.

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Proposition: "The Scriptures Teach That Water Baptism is Essential To The Salvation Of The Alien Sinner." A. C. Grider affirms

— Albert Garner denies Proposition: "T he Scriptures T each T hat T he Alien Sinner Is Saved At T he Point of Faith in Christ Before And Without Water Baptism." Albert Garner affirms — A. C. Grider denies

Proposition: "T he Scriptures T each T hat a Child of God Cannot So Sin As Finally To Be Lost In Hell." Albert Garner affirms —

A. C. Grider denies Proposition: "The Scriptures Teach That a Child of God May So Sin

As To Be Finally Lost In Hell." A. C. Grider affirms — Albert Garner denies

Tape for one night ................$ 3.00All four tapes ....................... $12.00

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QUESTION — I do not believe the doctrine of predestination that says God elects some and rejects others according to a decree he made from eternity. But I do not know how to explain Acts 13:48 according to what I understand the truth to be. Willyou please explain these words: "as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." — A.L.

ANSWER — Our querist is to be commended for seeking more information and being willing to study further that he might harmonize this verse with other known truths in the Bible. Well may any student know that when any verse seems to contradict known truth that the contradiction is in his own mind — not in the Bible. T he Bible is harmonious

— it never contradicts itself. It cannot and still be a book of truth.

The doctrine referred to is the Calvanistic theory of foreordination and predestination which affirms that God determined just who would be saved andwho would be lost from before the foundation of the world; that some people are of the elect and others are reprobates according to this eternal decree. This doctrine contradicts many passages that are too plain to be misunderstood, e.g., Rev. 22:17;Matt. 23:37; John 5:40; II Cor. 5:10-11. These verses establish clearly that man is a volitional beingand accountable before God. The Bible teaches that "whosoever will" may come.

The difficulty in the verse under study involves the expression "were ordained." The word translated "ordained" also appears variously in the New Testament as follows: "appoint" (Matt. 28:16); "set under authority" (Luke 7:8) ; "determined" (Acts 15:2) ; "addicted" (I Cor. 16:15). In the latter two,instances the word refers to past action on thepart of the individuals themselves. It identifies their attitude of heart and accounts for the course of action that followed. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament says concerning I Cor.

16:15: "to consecrate (R.V. set) one's self to minister unto one."

The context of the verse under study shows that it is used in this same sense. It sets before us a contrast in the attitudes of heart between the Jews and Gentiles and their consequent action. The Jews"were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming . . ." and consequently "judged themselves unworthy of everlasting life" (Acts 13:45,'46). On the other hand the Gentiles "were glad,"'"glorified the word of the Lord," and "were ordained" (determined in their own heart, addicted: themselves, set themselves) to seek eternal life— ;and consequently believed. The passive voice and(past tense of the verb shows that it identifies their attitude of heart before they believed and actually accounts for it.

The Bible teaches that those who have the right attitude of heart toward eternal life shall find it (Matt. 5:6; John 7:17; II Thess. 2:10-12). Conversely, the latter reference also shows that thewrong attitude of heart accounts for the loss of souls. The verse under study emphasizes this difference as it related to the Jews and Gentiles in Antioch and at the same time places the responsibility for belief on man — his own attitude of heart,and not on God.

"WHAT ABOUT A SOLO?"

I do my best to answer the questions I receive

from time to time. If I feel a question is of publi

interest, I try to give it public attention. I cannot

answer all the letters I receive through Searching

the Scriptures but I feel this one deserves some at

tention. Here is the letter. Dear Ward: I was just reading your article which was anaccount of a debate between yourself and a Mr.Albert Garner. I was moved after reading your article to askyou a few questions. They are as follows:

1. You quote Webster's definition of the word "sing." This seems to be prevalent in many of the brotherhood papers and debates. I do notbelieve I could accept Webster's definitions of words used in the scriptures. (For example;baptism, pastor, prevent, let and etc.) It would seem to me that I would want to know what several Greek language authorities had to sayabout the meaning of the Greek word rather than the English translation or transliteration,which be the case. What is your thinking on thematter?
2. Now a question about the subject of singing itself. How can you read into Eph. 5:19Col. 3:16 and a few other passages that the singing is to be a congregational effort as opposed to a solo? Also, if it cannot be substantiated with these passages, then where are the examples that show your practice to be authorized ?
3. Could not one just as well use a pr ayer book for praying as a song book for singing?(See your last paragraph, the argument forconsistency.) Also, where is the example or command for the song leader ?I am awaiting your answers to these questions. You may publish them if you desire, but I would also like a personal answer.

Your servant for Christ's sake

I am, Don

Mayfield

I want to thank Mr. Mayfield for his letter. Ishall spend very little time on questions one and three because it will not take long to answer. In answering question number one, may I say, I have never argued that Webster is right in all his definitions of Bible terms. However, we must realize that he is not always wrong! When I gave his definition ofsing, I gave it because I felt it was in harmony withGreek scholarship. If Mr. Mayfield feels that it isn't then he has the privilege of giving his Greek authority which will prove Mr. Webster's definition incorrect. He did not give it in the letter — it was implied but not given. Mr. Garner, in the debatedid NOT deny that sing meant to use the voice or vocal music. The meaning of some words is so obvious it would be a reflection on one's intelligence tgive a definition. We must remember that the scholarship of the world has translated the word fromthe Greek into our English word sing. I will venture to say that if our under standing of the word singis incorrect, Mr. Garner would have used Greek scholarship to remind us of the error.

On the prayer book question, my first objectionto a prayer book is that many times they are unscriptural and read in formalism. I have found noscripture forbidding a person writing a prayer and learning it. The Lord taught his disciples to pray. The prayer must be scriptural and sincere. From Luke eleven it seems that both John and Jesus taught their disciples to pray. This indicates a TE ACHING and LE ARNING proce ! I believe from this the Lord wants us to LEARN to pray. Ido not read in the New Testament where Christians were taught to memorize a song.

In question three Mr. Mayfield, asked for Bible authority to use a song leader. The authority is in Eph. 5:19, Col. 3:16, etc. — the command to sing.I shall establish the authority for congregational singing in a succeeding paragraph. When this is accomplished one must concede a leader to be necessary. How could any group sing without a leader? How could they know when to start? If they did not sing together, would that not be confusion, and condemned by I Cor. 14:40? They couldn't wait for the spirit to move them as the Quakers do. Someonemust lead or start them. Whether he stands, sits or kneels if he starts the song he would be the leader. Such questions as where is your authority for lights, seats, microphones, rest rooms, drinking fountains, song leaders, men to serve the Lord's Supper, contribution plates, heating systems and air conditioning systems fall into this category. They all inhere in a command to do something. For example, thecommand to teach, assemble, worship, etc., all implythe nece ity of certain things to expedite the command. The Jews under the law were commanded to TEACH. There was no direct authority for a synagogue. However, they were built all over Palestine to teach the Law. Jesus did not condemn them,but rather taught in them. So did Paul. Where was the authority for a synagogue? In the command toteach! I read nowhere in the Law about a synagogue.Do you?

Now for the question which I feel deserves a little more attention. This has to do with a solo in the assembly. It must be granted that if we had onlEph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16, we might not know whether God wanted us to use a solo or congregational singing. However, like every other subject we must take all the Bible says on this matter.

First, I affirm that ever Christian MUST sing ithe worship service if he is able to do so. The Bible gives the command to sing. T his was NOT written to a few but ALL Christians. I also insist that it is a part of the worship service. If one argues that it is a command which one can do when it pleases him,then it must follow, that he could do it ONE time and fulfill the scriptural requirements. I remember an argument the late W. Curtis Porter, made in hidebate with Dugger. It went something like this. If the recurrence of the Lord's Supper cannot be established in the Bible, a man could obser ve it ONE time and be through with it! Mr. Dugger never did answer the argument — and he never will. The Lord's Supper is to be observed only on SundaySinging is to be done at all worship services, noSunday only. However, if a man argues, as Dugger,that a man can sing when he gets r eady, then itmust follow as day follows night, If he sings ONE time he has met God's requirements. Therefore, ithe Bible authorizes a solo, ALL would have to sing-one. I intend to show that such was an absolute impossibility in Bible times. Before I do this I want to say that we have an example in Matt. 26:30which stands out in my mind. It says, "And whethey had sung an hymn, they went out into themount of Olives." Notice the plur al "T hey" anthe singular "Hymn." I insist this was group singing. Each person did not sing a solo. Yes, I knothis was before pentecost! But gentle reader, it gives an example of group singing by Jesus and the Apostles.

Now our points established are as follows: 1. AllChristians MUST sing. 2. This is to be done at allworship services. 3. If a Christian may sing whenhe gets ready, he could sing one time in his life and fulfill the requirements. 4. If one argues that a solo is scriptural, then ALL would have to sing one. 5. I plan to show this was an impo ibility

In Acts two the membership of the Jerusalem church was at least three thousand. In Acts 4:4 it had increased to five thousand. According to myarithmetic, if it took two minutes per song (which is about average) it would take 10,000 minutes to complete the song service. This figures out about seven days to let ever yone sing their solo. Pshaw. Youcan't get brethren to sit still for an hour much less seven days! And I am afraid when they heard m"solo" they would walk out anyway. No, brethren I can't go along with the solo theory. If it be argued they had both congregational singing and solos, theyhave already conceded that congregational singingis scriptural! They have also opened the flood gatefor the chorus, quartet, sextet, etc. Gentle reader,who could believe it?

THE VIRTUOUS WOMANIrven Lee

The Bible gives instruction concerning woman's place in the home. We can speak on this subject and on many more subjects with abundant instruction from the Bible just as we can show from the Biblethat one should believe, repent, 'and be baptized into Christ. The religion of Christ is very practical and guides us in all our relationships all througthe week, at home, at work, in the community, as well as in worship. In the study of woman, her character and her place in the home, we turn tothe Bible for the guiding principles just as we should turn to this Book on all things that pertainto life and godline .

Our first observation as to woman's place isconcerning its importance. Proverbs 31 tells us plainly that the price of a virtuous woman is far above rubies. In other words, it is impo ible to set a figure in dollars, or even in rubies. Let me suggest that you try now in your own mind to express the value of a Chr istian wife and mother. Is the value low enough to express in terms we know?

In thinking of the value of a virtuous woman, wemight also think of the traits of such a woman. This same chapter 31 of Proverbs can be the basis for such a study. Verse 11 says the heart of her husband doth safely trust in her. She can be depended on tofulfill her duties and responsibilities in the home. It can also be added that he can safely put his trust in her moral uprightne . There are those with virtue or strength of character enough for one to beable to lean on in confidence in a wicked world,Verse 12 is evidently true. It says she will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. Whosofindeth a wife findeth a good thing (Proverbs 18:22).Evidently the wife who lives by the will of God is referred to here.

Let me side track here enough to say that "marriage is honorable in all." These are the very words of Hebrews 13:4. Let me call your attention now to I Timothy 5:14. It says, "I will therefore that younger women marry, bear children, guide thhouse, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully" Some have tried to picture Paul asbeing opposed to marriage and thus not standinwith the rest of the writers of the Bible. This ridiculous charge against this inspired and heaven directed writer-is, as are other false doctrines, based oninexcusable ignorance. In I Corinthians 7, he does suggest advantages of being unmarried in thatperiod of distress and persecution as mentioned inverse 26. But even then, he recommended marriageto those who were not happy otherwise. Read the entire seventh chapter. Paul is one of the NewTestament writers to quote Genesis 2:24. Listen to that thought as quoted in-Ephesians 5:31. "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother,and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh." Paul is the very writer who warned that the time would come when men would forbid to marry. Read I Timothy 4:3. The church of the dark ages made one of its many big mistakes when it decided to forbid its religious leaders the advantagesof companions in the home and in the art . of living. God saw that it was not good for man to be alone (Genesis 2:19). How unfortunate that some have failed to see that and have actually opposed marriage.In this day when priests at least can have copies of the Bible, I marvel that they go on in contradiction toheaven's advice. Do all of you remember that Christ was talking of the marriage tie in Matthew 19:6when He said, "What therefore God hath joinetogether, let not man put asunder?" Marriage is adivine plan and holy in its influence. We sidetracked in the study of woman's place in the homefor this mention of marriage, when we saw in Proverbs 31:11 that she doeth him good and not evil. She, as God planned, is a help meet or worthy ofhim.

Let us look back to Proverbs 31 for further studyof the traits of a virtuous woman. In verse 13, we are told that "she worketh willingly with her hands." Some may know little about practical work and care even less. Their thoughts may be more concerningthe outward appearance. Those who are unwillingto work and bear responsibility may entrap some foolish men by their outward adorning and their appeal to the animal nature, but they will not dthem good all the days of their lives. A good woman's price is far above rubies. The virtuous woman worketh willingly with her hands. Let me ask a question in pa ing. Are we teaching our daughters that work is honorable? Are we training them for responsibilities as keepers at home?

Verse 20 of Proverbs 31 tells us that the virtuous woman "stretcheth out her hand to the poor." This is another way of saying that she, as well as her husband, has duties beyond her yard fence. She has duties to those in need around her. One cannot fulfill all her obligations within the four walls of her own home. The church calls for her. The needy need her,and their need is her challenge. Acts 9:36-42 tells the story of Dorcas who had helped many by thtoils of her own hands. The religion of Christ certainly is not less unselfish than the Jews' religion inthe days of Solomon when the Proverbs were written. How could we over-emphasize the need of this unselfish work?

"Strength and honor" are the clothing of thvirtuous woman according to verse 25. The sun tan of the idle woman of our day is a thing of whicshe may need to be ashamed. Strength and honoof character would make her look much better. This is a very appropriate time to read I Peter 3:1-4. "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your owhusbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; while they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning letit not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair,and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of Godof great price." Think seriously of this wonderful passage. T he or nament of a meek and quiet spir it is of great price and great value. One thus clothed is worthy. She is attractive without the gold, thecostly array, or the expensive hair-do. Proverbs 31mentioned strength and honor as her clothing.I Peter 3 mentioned the ornament of a meek and quiet spir it.

Verse 26 says, "She openeth her mouth withwisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindne ." Paul, in Titus 2:4, asked aged women to teach youngwomen, among other things, to be sober. To be thoughtful and capable is far more wonderful thanbeauty of face. Homes need keepers who are wisekind, thoughtful and sober. This very hour would be a good time to pray that many good forces can work together to raise the level of wisdom of those who have powerful influence in training the young

Verse 30 tells us that "Favor is deceitful, anbeauty is vain; but a woman that feareth the Lord,she shall be praised." How appropriate to notice, iclosing, this trait of reverence or fear of the Lord. Respect for the Lord and His will would make each one of us become a greater blessing to those about us. Lack of reverence is a serious weakness of our day. Virtuous women can exert a great influence onthis generation and on the next in building reverence for the God who made us, for the Creator of heaven and earth.

(Brother Leo Rogol of Hopewell, Va. left theAdventist church in 1954, leaving his familyin that denomination. He is qualified to write on this subject and the articles that follow will be an effort to expose this error and show thetruth of God. In his own words to me: "But I appreciate the truth so much, that after havingobeyed it I wanted more than anything to teachthe truth and oppose error. That is why I am a gospel preacher and why I would like to have this article in Searching The Scriptures." Wecommend the following articlesto you.— editor).

WHY I LEFT THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST DENOMINATION Leo Rogol, Hopewell, Virginia INTRODUCTION

First allow me to say there were no personal reasons that prompted me to leave the Adventist church. To this day I have dear friends in that body;my father is a minister in that denomination andmy brother and sister are also active in it. Since Ileft that body I have been subjected to pr essur e and persuasion to return and thus it was no lighmatter to sever relations with my former associa

tions. Since childhood I held the deep conviction thatthe Adventist position was the only scriptural oneand that all other religious beliefs were of the devil. But an occasion was presented to me to compare the doctrines of Adventism with Scripture. I knew thatas a seeker of truth I could not allow myself to beinfluenced by immediate surroundings, but couldonly look up "from whence cometh my help." Howmeaningful to me were the words of Paul: "Butwhen it pleased God ... to reveal his Son in me . . . immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood"(Gal. 1:15-16).

Several years ago I had an occasion to attendservices of the church of Christ near Cleveland, Ohio during which the preacher spoke against some errors in Adventist doctrines. I was simply amazedthat one would dar e say a wor d against that which I considered absolute, unchangeable truth. I firmlybelieved that any opposition to the Adventist beliefs was instigated by Satan, and though this pr eacher was sincer e in what he taught, he was mer ely thevictim of Satan's delusions. T o my way of thinking, as I had been drilled in this belief, truth was that which endorsed and accepted by the Advent body,and all that did not agr ee with its standar ds wasfalse and dangerous. I had been brought up from birth under the conviction that what "Sister E. G. White" spoke upon any given subject was the final authority that settled any question beyond a shadow of doubt.

Arrangements were then made for a discussion

between that preacher and myself, and we deter

mined to use the Bible as the only standard of au

thority to determine whose position was scriptural.

I went to him with the most sincere and honest

desire to show him the error of his way and to con

vert him to the "truth" of Adventism. I went with

confidence, thinking I had all the truth and that

no other religious body had any vestige of knowledge

of scriptures comparable to the Adventists.

POSITION WEAKENED

For nearly two years we discussed matters of

truth, and during that time I saw my position grad

ually weaken. I now appr eciate that the pr eacher

with whom I had the discussion was an able de

fender of truth and could skillfully oppose errors

of man-made religions. The arguments used to de

fend Adventism which appeared invincible now be

gan to reveal their inconsistencies. Desperately I

shifted from one argument to another, but each

change was a step in retreat. One of the most flag

rant violations of fair practices in religious teaching

was shown to me in evidence that Adventists either

wilfully, deliberately, or ignorantly misquote and

misrepresent Writings of others on given subjects

to make them appear as favoring their own position.

This I learned was especially true when they were

dealing with the Sabbath question. Any person or

group that resorts to such tactics proves beyond a

shadow of doubt that there is no truth in that po

sition being taught and endorsed. I then came to the

decision that if one principle is wrong that is upheld

by a religious group, this one false principle proves

that gr oup to stand on a false foundation.

One does not have to prove every doctrine held

and taught by a given group to be error to prove that body false. One unscriptural view on a single doctrine is sufficient grounds to overthrow the entire claim of that body to be the true church of Christ. Yet I found that not only the main pillar of the Adventist church — the Sabbath — is without scriptural authority, but practically every view andinterpretation they hold has no support from the word of God.

Desiring to become a child of God, to be called aChristian only, and not called by a man-made namesuch as "Seventh-day Adventist," I obeyed the gospel by renouncing my former convictions, byrepenting of my sins and confessing faith in Christ as the Son of God, and by being scripturally immersed in the name of Christ. Thus, I have the joyand confidence that God has added me to His church (Acts 2:47), free from human traditions, interpretations, and human standar ds or laws, foundednot by man but founded by the One who gave His blood to purchase it.

It would be impossible at this time to give all myreasons for leaving Adventism. But to the dear reader who might be under the sway and influence of this religious body, I would like to submit to you an outline of a few of their doctrines and prove from scripture that the teachings of the Adventist Church are wrong. Bear in mind, dear reader, that if these points brought out show a violation of scripture in Adventist doctrine, these alone constitute sufficient reasons to discredit the entire movement and to forsake the errors of that body.

(Continued Next Month)

"SOUND" AND "LIBERAL" CHURCHES

William H. Lewis, St. Petersburg, Fla.

(Continued from Last Month)

WORLDLINESS IN THE CHURCH

To be "sound" one must be opposed to WORLDLINESS IN THE CHURCH! (This is something that is found on BOT H SIDES facing the churchtoday. To my mind, it is a far greater danger tothe church than INSTITUTIONALISM. For institutionalism can be detected in its "early stages" in most cases, where worldliness can have us, and gonewith us, before we realize it.) One must be BURIED with the Lord in baptism, as a penitent believer, upon the confession of his faith in Jesus as the Son of God, "for the remission of sins," or, in order to obtain the remission of sins (Rom. 6:4; Mk.16:16; L k. 24:47; Acts 2:38, 8:37). When one doesthat he is cleansed by the blood of Christ (Rev. 1:5). The blood of Christ was shed in his death (John 19:34). We are "baptized into his death," or, intothe benefits of his death.(Rom. 6:3,4). But, after

one experiences this New Birth (John 3:5), after he becomes a child of God by faith (Gal. 3:26),having been baptized into Christ" where one is a"child of God by faith" (Gal. 3:27), he must live aGODLY life, unspotted from the world as long as he lives. Notice carefully these passages please: II Cor.

5:17 — "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold,all things are become new." Rev. 2:10b — "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crownof life." Rom. 12:1,2 — "I beseech you therefore,brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable untGod, which is your reasonable service. And be notconformed to this world: but be ye transformed bthe renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will ofGod."

II Cor. 7:1 — "Having therefore these promises,dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." Titus 2:12 — "Teaching us that,denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we shoullive soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world." Heb. 12:14 — "Follow peace with all menand holine , without which no man can see the Lord." Rev. 21:27 — "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: butthey which are written in the Lamb's book of life." These will suffice. It is clear that it is either HOLINESS OR HELL, whether it be on the part of onewho is called an "anti" or a "liberal!" Let us be a little more specific.

THE MODERN DANCE

Should a congregation be classed as "sound" when they will condone — not condemn — the modern dance? Should a preacher be considered as "sound" who will not condemn the modern dance? This is one of our greatest evils in our society today, andit has found its way into the church of our Lord.How can a "Christian" take part in the modern dance, in face of these scriptures given, as well as the many charges that can be sustained against the practice of such? that proves such to be sinful? Here are a few reasons why a Christian cannotafford to take part in the modern dance: (1) It is called in question by the more godly people in thchurch. Christians cannot afford to take part insomething when objections to such are so well founded (Rom. 14:23). "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Would not this simple principle apply to something that is so doubtful in the minds of godly people? Certainly so. (2Dancing is lasciviousness (Gal. 5:19). It is one of the works of the flesh that Paul said would keeone out of heaven if he dies with this sin unforgiven(Gal. 5:21). Lasciviousness is that which is "lewd," "wanton," "lustful"; "tending to produce lewemotions." "Lewd" means to be "given to indulgence" ; "suiting or proceeding from unlawful sexual desires." Such describes the modern dance. You take the sex appeal out of the dance, and you will haveno dance. Someone has rightly said: "The prayingknee and the dancing foot is not on the same limb."

It has been said: "If ever there were a hell on earth, the dance hall was built over it." Again: "I had rather see my daughter stumble into heaventhan to waltz gracefully into hell." How true, howtrue! (3) Dancing is "of the world" (I John 2:15),and many times is closely connected with the sin of drinking (Prov. 20:1), murder (Jas. 2:10,11),divorce (Matt. 19:9), and sexual violation of God's law (Heb. 13:4). A tree is known by its fruits. The modern dance bears bitter fruits. (4) The modern dance is a stumbling block to weak brethren in theLord. I have heard some say: "I can take part in the dance, and never have an evil thought." Of course,no one can tell what is pa ing through one's mind except the person themselves. But, I believe that if a normal person can embrace someone who is not his wife, or husband as the case may be, as is done in the modern dance, while dancing to suggestive music, and many times in almost dark rooms, annot have evil thoughts, IT IS LATER THAN HEMAY T HINK! What he needs is a good "round" of HADICALL! He has one foot in the grave, anthe other one on a banana pealing! It is hard tobelieve that a Christian will take part in the modern dance. Now, is a preacher "sound" if he never preaches on this terrible sin? Can a group of elders neglect to have this sin condemned, JUST BECAUSE SOME MEMBER OF THEIR FAMILY DOES SUCH? Can a preacher afford not to condemn the modern dance just because the more influential members may believe in, and practice such ? We will say for ARGUMENT SAKE than a Christian cantake part in the dance and not sin, but, can we afford to do such when we know of so many that havfallen as a result of the modern dance? Are we our brothers keeper? Listen to these verses: Mat. 18:6

— "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." Rom. 14:21 — "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink, nor anything whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."

I Cor. 8:13 — "Wherefore, if meat make mbrother to offend, I will eat no meat while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend." I Cor.

10:32 — "Give none offense, neither to the Jews,nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:" Do you still say that a Christian can take part in themoder n dance and not sin? I wouldn't think so.

(5) The modern dance is destructive, (a) It destroys moral purity. Paul told Timothy to keep himself "pure" (I Tim. 5:22). (b) It destroys purity othought. The thoughts of our hearts determine lar gely what we ar e, or what we do (Prov. 23:7). (c) It destroys our influence for good, and in such cases, we are good for nothing but to be cast out(Matt. 7:13,14). We are to be examples for goo(I Tim. 4:12). (d) It can, and often does, destroyhomes. When such is done, there is sin (Matt. 19:6). How many homes have been broken because of the evil effects of the modern dance? Do you know ofany? If not, ask me and I will tell you of quite few! (e) But finally, the modern dance can, anwill, destroy a soul in HELL! (Gal. 5:21). Can apreacher be called "sound" who never finds the opportunity to preach against the modern dance?What do you think about this matter? Can a con

". . . THEY REHEARSED ALL THAT GOD HAD DONE WITH THEM . . ."— Acts 14:27

gregation be called a "sound congregation" when its leaders will not DEMAND that this sin be condemned. I hardly think so!(Continued Next Month)

Ralph R. Givens, Oceanside, Calif. — Two have recently been baptized, two restored and eight were identified.

Larry Bunch, Louisville, Ky. — I have been accepted to preach the gospel for the Shively church of Christ located at 1916 Rockford Lane, Louisville,Kentucky. Everyone who has been sending me publications please note my change of address: 1904Rockford Lane, Louisville, Kentucky 40216. This will be my first full time position and I will needand appreciate all the bulletins and help that anyone can send me.

The church meeting at 19th and Calla, Frederick,Okla. will be in need of a self-supporting preacher or one supported by other congregations. This is a challenging and most worthy work. If interested and able, please inquire.

John A. Thurman, Loudon, Tenn. — One baptized on Sunday night, December 27 at Loudon church of Christ on Ward Avenue in Loudon, Tennessee. In the fall the brethren remodeled the meeting house,adding new seats, air conditioning as well as altering the interior. We invite all faithful brethren traveling U.S. 11 (Chattanooga to Knoxville) toworship with us.

Charles E. Beaty, Houston, Texas — We are happyto report four restorations and nine to identifywith the church in Home Owned Estates duringthe months of November and December.

William Clyde Sutton, Sw t Home, Oregon — After two years and eight months with the church known as the Macedonia church of Christ in the Englewood, Tennessee area, we are now workingwith the faithful Long Street church at SweetHome, Oregon. My new address is: P.O. Box 612,Sweet Home. Oregon 97386.

L. A. M ott, Jr., Wayne, Michigan — I have left Gainesville, Georgia and am with the church inWayne, Michigan. I promised the brethren atGainesville to help them find someone to replace me.

Vernon R. Butler, Jacksonville, Fla.— Billy Murrell completed a gospel meeting with the church inOrange Park, Florida on January 24. The results were good. One was baptized and one confessed unfaithfulness on Sunday 17, and two others confessed faults during the week of the meeting. The truth of the gospel was preached every night andattendance was good. We were offered a debateon the current i ues of institutionalism. We are awaiting a copy of the propositions.

Colin Williamson, Jonesboro, Tenn. — On January11 and 12 brother James Yopp of the North Hixson congregation in Hixson, Tennessee defended thetruth in a public discussion with brother J. A. Clement. It was reported to be a fine discu ion conducted in the best of order. Faithful brethren were well pleased with brother Yopp's effort. One thingof note: brother Clement expressed a willingness to debate the r ight of a college to be supported bthe church. Such is the final direction that all liberal congr egations must take if they are to remain ithe mainstream of the liberal movement. Every congregation and each preacher in the Johnson City area must either endorse such as scriptural or oppose such as a departure.

James E. Gunn, Eau Gallie, Fla. — Bill Cavender of Longview, T exas will be in a meeting at E au Gallie, February 22-28. All in this area are invited to attend this meeting.

Walter T. Stephens, Lexington, Ky. — Another church of the Lord began meeting in Lexington,Ky., on November 4th. It was made up of members of the University Heights congregation who livedon the north side of the city. The new work started with the ble ings and prayers of the University congregation and they are helping with the support of Walter T. Stephens who is doing the preachingfor the new congregation. Property consisting ofa home for the preacher and a meeting house hasbeen purchased from the Church of God. The property is located at the corner of Liberty Road andLagonda Avenue.

Clinton D. Hamilton, of Tampa, Fla., did thepreaching in the first meeting for the new congregation the week of November 15th. One was baptized and five were identified with the congregation. Since the meeting five more have been baptized, one restored, and one who had been worshipping with Premillennial group renounced the error of the same and took his stand for the truth with thefaithful brethren.

!

The congregation earnestly requests the prayers! of faithful brethren everywhere.

William H. Lewis, St. Petersburg, Fla. — Brother Grover Stephens, of Louisville, Ky., will do thepreaching in a gospel meeting at the 9th Avenuchurch of Christ, whose meeting house is located at 1315-9th. Ave. No. in St. Petersburg, startingSunday, February 21-28. Services each evening a

7:30. All are invited.

Tune in WFLA Radio, 970 on the dial, each Sunday morning at 8:00, for the Bible Truth Program. Preaching by William H. Lewis.

Karl Diestelkamp, Milwaukee, Wise. — Your helpin locating a faithful preacher of the gospel who can preach in either German or Russian (preferablyGerman) would be greatly appreciated. If you knowof such a man I would like to correspond with him.

In the Milwaukee area we have many German-speaking people who speak little or no English. We are in touch with several of these people and would like to be able to teach them more, and could do so, except for the language barrier. I would also like to find where we could purchase some good first principle tracts in the German language to use in this work. I shall appreciate all contacts that mighthelp us.

H. F. Sharp, Conway, Ark. — Beginning the first of February I will be in meeting work full time. For years I have been holding an average of 15meetings a year and the brethren in Conway are now going to underwrite my work in the field. The church at 40th Street in Tampa, Florida will be theplace of a meeting in which I shall do the preachingFebruary 14-21.

MOVING BACK TO FORT SMITH, ARKANSAS Cecil B. Douthitt

On the first day of March (1965), we plan tomove from Louisville back to our home in Fort Smith, Arkansas, where I have maintained an office and mailing address for several years. All themembers, including the elders, here in HaldemanAvenue church where I have worked for almost fourteen years in all have made us think they really want us to stay on here. We appreciate this verymuch indeed, and I would not leave them now, if I thought that my going would damage or retard the work in any way. My judgment is that a younger man will be found soon to take my place and thatthe work will move right along in a very fine way

T he Lord willing I shall hold a few meetings each year, and do some writing which I have had in mind for sever al year s, but have not had thtime to finish.

I wish all the preachers and churches that havebeen sending me their bulletins would continue to do so. My mailing address is P. O. Box 752, ForSmith, Arkansas 72902.

Alton Elliott, Perry, Fla. — The month of Januarywas a good month for us here at Spring Warrior. On the first Sunday there were five baptized. On the fourth Sunday there were two restored. Also thebrethren have agreed to support me in some meetings this summer with small congregations that will not be able to afford a meeting. If any smallcongregation would like to have me preach for them,please contact me at Route 2, Box 446, Perry, Fla.

Jack Kelton, Murfreesboro, Tenn. — The work at University Heights here in Murfreesboro is gettingoff to a good start. (This is the new congregation which began October 1, 1964 across the street from Middle Tennessee College.)

A REVIEW OF THE GRIDER GARNER DEBATE

J. T. Smith, W auchula, Fla.

T he debate that was held in Wauchula, Flor ida between Dr. Albert Garner — Mi ionary Baptist — and Mr. A. C. Grider— gospel preacher — is now history. Considering the cold weather and the fact that most Baptists are afraid to hear their doctrine examined, we had a good crowd each evening. Between two and three hundred were present for every session.

Some of the high-lights of the debate are as follows:

1. Dr. Garner endeavored to show that a person is saved by grace, faith, blood, repentance, etc.,none of which have anything to do with proving that a person is saved before and without water baptism. But, this is what the proposition called for. Brother Grider pointed this out very clearly on a chart that he had showing that those who are members of the church of Christ believe all these things, and thatno one would deny this; but the question is "before and without water baptism." This, of course, is the place where Baptists get off the track. They wantto talk about "faith only" or at "the point of faith" instead of citing passages that would teach salvation before and without water baptism. This they cannot find. Garner continually wanted to know what passages stated that if a man was not baptized hewould be lost. Brother Grider presented John 3:5 and challenged Dr. Garner to say that water in this passage did not mean water baptism. Dr. Garnernever would say that water in John 3:5 was or was not baptism, but brother Grider pressed it and Gar ner didn't deny that it was. 2. Another of the highlights occurred on Tuesdaynight when brother Grider jokingly said to Mr. W. C. Nevil, who was moderating for Dr. Garner and whohad been laughing aloud when Garner would makesome point, "why don't you laugh now like you did a few moments ago?" Mr. Nevil just couldn't sit still any longer, and he jumped up and said, "are you challenging me to a debate?" As a result of this outburst two debates were arranged with Mr. Nevil. Brother Grider is to meet Mr. Nevil Meridian,Miss. March 2, 3, 4, 5. I signed propositions with Dr. Nevil to debate him in Wauchula at a date to be arranged. Evidently, Mr. Nevil was not satisfied with Dr. Garner's efforts, for he continually talkedabout how satisfied he was. It seems that mandoors of opportunity may be opening for the brethren to engage these people in debate and teach thepeople who come to hear them the truth.
1. On the last proposition, "can a child of God so sin as to be finally lost in hell?", perhaps the most outstanding blunder was when Dr. Garner admitted that a child of God could commit any sin that a child of the devil can commit. Later on in his speechhe said, that if anyone denied the virgin birth oJesus that he would go to hell. Brother Grider then made a chart showing the obvious. If a child ofGod could commit any sin that a child of the devil could commit, and a child of the devil could denythe virgin birth of Christ, and go to hell, then it must follow that a child of God not only could but might commit a sin that by Garner's own admi ion would send him to hell.

The debate was carried on the highest po ible level, and I commend both men for their efforts and their behavior. We want to thank brother Grider for coming here for this discussion, and we earnestlybelieve that he is one of the great debaters of ourtime.

Tapes of all four nights of this discu ion may bobtained from brother H. E. Phillips, P. O. Box 17244, Tampa, Florida. I have a set of these tapesalready, and I can assure you of the very highest quality in each tape. The price for all four is $12.00.

TAPES OF EVERY SPEECH OF THE

1965 FLORIDA COLLEGE LECTURE PROGRAM

Clear and complete tapes are available of theentire Florida College Lecture Program — January 2528, 1965. New 1 1/2 mil polyester "Mylar" base strongtape that will not stretch will be used, recorded at 3 1/2 speed and may be played on any tape recorder. One 7" reel will contain any two speeches desired. There wer e 20 lectur es and 10 tapes will contain the entir electure program.

** *

SPEAKERS AND THEIR SUBJECTS

Harris Dark — Relativism and Absolutism."Jim Ward — "Moral Revolution In America."Ronald Mosby — "Conscience Struggle Of The Organization Man."Art Ogden — "Works Of The Flesh."Homer Hailey — "Moral Implications In The Fall Of Nations."Foy Vinson — "Love Not The World."Stanley Lovett — Immoral Dispositions."Harry Pickup, Jr. — "Basic Causes of Divorce."Bill Fling — "Moral Responsibility of Communication Media."Howard See — "Let it be Corban."Jim Rury— "Morality And Spiritual Mindedness."

C. D. Hamilton — "Moral Implications of Capital Punishment."Gene Frost — "Moral Implications of Gambling."Ray Ferris — "Bribery And Perversion of Justice."James R. Cope — "Moral Implications of America's Public Health

Enemy §4." Steve Hudgins— "Fruit Of The Spirit." David Tant— "Morality and Judgment to Come." Melvin Curry — "Moral Implications of Organized Benevolence." A. C. Grider — "Why Florida College." Robert Jackson — Technique of the Big Lie."

** *

Any one tape (two speeches) .......... $ 3.00 The entire program (10 tapes) .....$27.00 ** *

order from: PHILLIPS PUBLICATIONS P.O.BOX 17244 TAMPA, FLORIDA 33612

When the evolutionist attempts to show relationships between the anthropoids and man he will goto great lengths to stress similarities. This is donebecause, he contends, similarity proves decent. Since these forms descended from a common ancestor,he contends, they would have these similar i-ties. What the evolutionist does not point out is the many differences between man and these forms. Some of these differences are: permanent bipedallocomotion by man, the ability to walk on two feetinstead of all fours; a prominent bridge in the nose which is not present in apes; a median furrow inthe upper lip of man which is absent in the apes;man has a chin and the apes do not; the lumbar curve of the spine of man is not found among apes;the great toe of man is not opposable to other toes as is the case in the apes; man does not possess tactile hair s; his head is on the top of the spinalcolumn rather than hinged in front of it; manpossesses the greatest total number of vertebrae. These are only a very few of the differences of structures between man and the apes. Another difference is that man is teachable in the true sense of the word. He is able to learn, retain, transfer his learning and use this accumulated knowledge to alter his surroundings for his own benefit. I suggest that the greatest difference between man and these other forms is the difference God made when He "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man becamea living soul."

"ANTIPOPE" .. . ITS DEFINITION

The Catholic Encyclopedia defines "Antipope" as

follows:

"Antipope, a false claimant of the Holy See inopposition to a pontiff canonically elected. Atvarious times in the history of the Church (Roman Catholic. L.W.M.) illegal pretenders to the PapalChair have arisen, and frequently exercised pontifical functions in defiance of the true occupant. According to Hergenrother, the last antipope was Felix V (1439-49). The same authority enumerates twenty-nine in the following order:

"Hippolytus ( ?) , Ill century. Novatian, 251. FeliII, 355-365. Ursicinus, 366-367. Eulalius, 418-419. Laurentius, 498-501. Constantine II, 767. Philip, VIII century. Anastasius, 855. Leo VIII, 956-963. Boniface VII, 974. John XVI, X century. Gregory, 1U12.Sylvester III, 1044. Benedict X, 1058. Honorius II,1061-1072. Guibert or Clement III, 1080-1100. Theodoric, 1100. Aleric, 1102. Maginulf, 1105. Burdin (Gregory VIII), 1118. Anacletus II, 1130-1138. Victor IV, 1159-1164. Pascal III, 1164-1168. Calixtus III, 1168-1177. Innocent III, 1178-1180. Nicholas V,1328-1330. Robert of Geneva (Clement VII), 13781394. Adameus of Savoy (Felix V), 1439-1449." (Page 582, Vol. I.

From the foregoing quotation, it can be readilydetermined that UNITY has not been always a 'distinguishing characteristic' of the Roman Church. In fact, she lacks UNIT Y yet today in many r espects. We would also call your attention to thepoint that the so-called "popes" in the early centuries (up through the 6th. L.W.M.) were simpl"bishops of Rome" and NOT as they are at present,"world-wide bishops."

On page 35, T he Catholic Dictionar y, by Addisand Arnold, we are informed:

". . . in the great schism of the fourteenth century. For forty years, two and even three pretender s to the Papacy claimed the allegiance of Catholics: whole countries, learned men and canonized saints, ranged themselves on different sides,and EVEN NOW IT IS NOT PERHAPS ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN WHO WAS POPE AND WHO ANTIPOPE." (Emphasis mine. L.W.M.)

T hus, the Catholic Dictionar y admits that we cannot be absolutely certain as to who was or was not a pope or antipope. This is a pretty flimsy foundation for Catholicism to rest upon, don't you think?

THE 1964 GRIDER-TOTTY DEBATE

J. R. Snell, Laurel, Miss.

(Continued from Last Month)

In his first speech brother Totty said he was more especially concer ned with childr en under the age of accountability. He offered four passages of scripture to sustain his pr oposition, noting that this was what the Bible taught concerning helping others. His entire affirmation revolved around these four passages.

Romans 12:13,20. His r emar ks wer e that the letter

was written to the church. The question was raised,

"Is the church to care for saints in verse 13 and the

individuals the enemies in verse 20?" He concluded

who ever was to care for one was to care for the

other.

II Corinthians 9:12,13. "Unto them" — saints,

"and unto all men." Who ar e the "all men"? T otty

stressed that the grammatical construction de

manded the antecedent of 'all" be some one other

than saints. His conclusion, sinner s.

Galatians 6:10. This teaches that we do good unto

all men — especially the household of faith. Two

groups, do good to both. The epistle written to

churches of Galatia. Grammatical construction makes

the passage applicable to the church. He stated, verse

10 can't be individual in application based upon

verse 11, "ye" applying to churches. He charged the

restoration movement was 100 years old before any

thing other than the church was seen in this verse.

He concluded who ever the letter is written to is

addr essed in Galatians 6:10.

James 1:27. Argument was made on the pronoun

"himself" which was identified as an indefinite pro

noun in the Greek. As such it could be translated

either himself, herself, itself or oneself. Thayer was

offered as authority. It refers to all men and all

women in the chur ch thus the whole chur ch. E phe

sians 5:25 was offered. Totty reverted to James 1:26

to establish the chur ch was involved in context. He

then moved to James 2:1-2 and raised the question,

"Is the assembly the church?"

Totty sought to illustrate Grider's position by tak

ing a sack of fertilizer and holding it before the

audience char ging you could buy that out of the

church treasury to feed Grider's lawn but you could

not take 250 out of the treasury to buy baby food.

He held an empty skimmed milk carton before the

audience. He further charged Grider with having

grass above human beings. Totty charged Grider's position permitted the feeding of a dog but not astar ving child who was not a member of the chur ch.

He asked if I Cor. 16:1-2 was an exclusive pattern. When Grider answered, "yes, for the church to raise money," T otty concluded that it was inconsistent topermit a sinner to contribute on the Lord's day andnot relieve his need out of the treasury.

Grider charged that the proposition was ambiguous in the extreme and that Totty wouldn't evendare tell how he proposed to get the money from the church treasury to the child. That is the thing he has covered up and that is the thing we want toget uncovered. He then addressed himself to the question, "Why sign such a pr oposition?" and explained that it afforded an opportunity to teach thetruth regarding the care of needy children.

He stated that both he and T otty believed thatchildren should be cared for, the difference was in who should care for them. That money could betaken from the church treasury to help children, wesimply differ on how the money gets to the childr en. We both believe Chr istians have a r esponsibility along that line, we disagree as to whether or not the church has a responsibility.

Grider charged that Totty had something covered up in his discussion just as does the Christian Church preacher. The Christian Church preacher wants to talk about taking money from the church treasury to preach the gospel. When you object he will likely accuse you of not believing in pr eaching the gospel. Actually he wants to give it to the missionar y society to pr each the gospel, but he wants to keep it cover ed up and tr eat it as though it didn'texist. Totty wants to talk about taking money tofeed destitute children but he too has something covered up Actually he takes money from the treasury and gives it to a benevolent society which takespart of it and supplies the need of destitute children.

Grider asked, "Can the church help all men unrestricted?" He then answered no and chided Totty for so implying in II Cor. 9:12-13. He then introduced a chart on which was listed some 12 or 15 items such as, missionar y society, hospital, Masonic home, etc., and asked, "Can the chur ch help these?"He answered, "No!" His final item, "Can the church help a needy saint?" He answered, "Yes!" He challenged brother Totty to answer the same questions.T his pr oved T otty did not believe the chur ch couldhelp every one and he never did compliment the chart.

Grider charged the church helping a human organization is one of the sins in this matter. Goingbeyond the doctrine of Christ and helping non-saints is a sin that is committed. But, the biggest sin of all in what you ar e doing is the sin against the child.

Grider repeatedly stated he was opposed to thepractice of taking money from the church treasury and giving it to the benevolent society which in turn feeds destitute children. He charged this was Totty's and Garfield Heights practice, and challenged a defense of the practice. He continually asked for the Bible passage which authorizes the church to helpany except saints.

In dealing with II Cor. 9:13 he called attentionto the fact that the contribution was raised for saints, I Cor. 16:1-2, II Cor. 8:1,4. It was sent tothe saints, Rom. 15:25; I Cor. 16:3. It was received by the saints, Rom. 15:31. It supplied the want of

the saints, II Cor. 9:12. There is no command for the church to relieve sinners, there is no exampleof the church relieving sinners and there is no necessary inference for the church relieving sinners. "Unto them" is unto the saints at Jerusalem, "unt

all" is unto all other saints.

Argument on James 1:27 was reduced to nothing.

From the standpoint of both English and Greek

grammar, the personal, individual obligation of

pure religion was established. "Himself" is mani

festly to the individual. T hus, it is the individual

and not the church who is to practice pure and

undefiled religion as per this text.

Galatians 6:10 was established as individual responsibility. Grider further countered that benevolence was not the primary consideration in verse 10.

In clarifying his position Grider made the following statements. I believe the Bible teaches the church can help destitute children who are saints. That the church can help saints relieve their own destitute children as well as others who may be their responsibility

In summation Grider charged Totty and Garfield

Heights with: going beyond the things written,

II Cor. 4:6; not abiding in the doctrine of Christ,

II John 9; adding to the word of God, Rev. 21:18;

the work of iniquity, Matt. 7:22. (Continued Next Month)

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DISCUSSION IN EAST TENNESSEE

L. A. Mott, Jr., Gainesville, Ga.

Jonesboro, Tennessee was the scene of a discu ion of current problems in the church between brethren Colin Williamson and Robert O. Wilson the nights of December 7th and 8th.

The discu ion stemmed from the following: Because of its stand on modern innovations the Jonesboro church had been "disfellowshipped" and maligned by other churches in that area of East Tennessee. Brother Williamson, soon after moving toJonesboro earlier this year, began publishing weekly paper in which he called upon the preachers of the area to come and point out the sins of theJonesboro church. For many weeks about the greatest act of courage any critic of Jonesboro's position could manage was a return of the bulletin with"refused" marked on it. One or two did write "refused" in especially bold letters which, I suppose,showed unusual and extreme courage.

The preachers of that immediate area have yet

to answer the Jonesboro call. This seems strange if

the Jonesboro brethren do not believe in caring for

orphans, as some would say, for it would seem

that any preacher would have the courage to go

straighten out some folk on whether it is right to

hate orphans.At length brother Wilson of Maryville answered

the call. Arrangements for the discu ion had each speaker

making a forty minute defense of his position andthen answering questions from the audience for about 25 minutes. T his was not a debate in the

strict sense of the word.

The first night brother Wilson argued that the

orphan homes were restored homes, divine institu

tions, and for that reason worthy of the support of

churches. The second night he founded his defense

of the Herald of Truth upon the contention that

preaching the gospel is a work to be done by the

universal church. Brother Williamson, though young and inexperi

enced in debating, did a masterful job of defending

the truth, in the judgment of this writer. (Inci

dentally, he and I are cousins in such a fashion that

either of us could probably claim it or disclaim it

with some justification. I am glad to claim both

physical and spir itual kinship with this able

preacher.)I will make only two observations. First, whatever

advantages a formal debate may have over this type arrangement in terms of giving the opportunity tdeal more thoroughly with the opponent's arguments were, in my judgment, outweighed by thinformality and resulting lack of tension of this discu ion. In terms of a proper atmosphere for a brotherly discu ion 1 felt that the Jonesboro type

had it all over the formal debates I have heard.

Second, the essential difference between the two

brethren seemed to me to be indicated in brother

Wilson's reply to a question that Jas. 1:27 and, of

all passages, Eph. 4:28, "satisfied" him as to the

authority for church care of orphans as such. As

brother Ed Harrell would point out, brother Wilson

just seemed more easily satisfied about finding his

position in the Bible than brother Williamson.

The Jonesboro brethren feel that they must con

tinue in their present position in view of brother

Wilson's failure to present scripture to sustain es

sential points of his position. They remain, however,

willing to have their position examined by the Bibl

under any honorable conditions.

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DON'T THEY LOVE OUR SOULS??

J. T. Smith, Wauchula, Florida

During the past week, it was my privilege to speak at the church of Christ in Punta Gorda, Florida for three nights on the "sponsoring church," "Herald of Truth," "recreation," and "Orphan Home" issues that are dividing the L ord's church today. Those in Punta Gorda who invited me tocome did so hoping that their members who havegone with the "great heathen movement on liberalism" and moved five miles across the river to Port Charlotte, Florida to start another congregation, would be interested enough in healing the divisionin the Lord's church there to come and listen.

It was announced that each night the lessons would be r ecor ded, and an opportunity would begiven at the close of each lesson for ANYONE in the audience to ask any question or make any observation they desired to make in an effort to arrive at the truth. These opportunities were given eachnight.

Brother Danny T am, the good preacher in PuntaGorda, went to Port Charlotte to see brother Blain Cook, the man who preaches for this "faction" that has left Punta Gorda, and with hesitation brother Cook informed brother Tam that he would not come. Brother Cook said, "I will not be ther e. I know all the arguments that Smith will make, and I knowall the answers. I don't feel that I could learn anything, therefore I will not be there." My, it mustbe nice to know everything. No, brother Cook wasn't willing to drive five miles to listen to J. T. Smithwith the opportunity to ask questions and pointout the errors that wer e made and try to teach thetruth on whatever he believed we were teaching that was erroneous. But, just a few weeks ago, brother Robert Gene Mclndoo, a "liberal" preacher from Ft. Myers, Florida, came to Sweetwater, Florida to speak three nights on these "issues" and brother Cook obviously didn't know it all then, for he drove 45 miles to hear brother Mclndoo, when the lessons were not recorded and no questions could be asked.

Br other T am said, "well, if you won't come, atleast announce about these lessons so that the brethren here can come." Brother Cook informed him that not only would he not come, but he wouldnot announce it.

Brother Paul Richmond, a man who has been pr eaching f or sever al year s and who attends at Punta Gor da, let it be known that he would notattend to hear these matters discussed.

Brother Tam also called brother Robert Gene Mclndoo and URGED him to come, but brother Mclndoo said he was too busy.

T he thing that amazes me is this. All thr ee of the above mentioned "liberal" preachers say that we are in error. All three of them knew about and had the opportunity to come, listen and ask questions and point out our error. Yet NOT ONE OF T HE M car ed enough about the souls of some 35or 40 people who assembled each night in Punta Gorda, to make one gesture in an effort to come and listen and tell us what we are teaching that is wrong. I tell you, it is a sad day in the Lord's church when three so-called gospel preachers don't care enough about people's souls, when given an opportunity to come and point out their error, todo so. It's bad enough when brethren think theyKNOW IT ALL, and won't listen to both sides of a question, but it's worse when they have an opportunity to save souls from error and Hell and won't do it. Even though we are not given an opportunity to ask questions each night, there were from two to four car loads of people that went from Wauchula to Sweetwater every night to hear brother Mclndoo, hoping to gain some truth we did nothave.

So, I am ashamed of these brethren. Ashamedthat so-called members of the Lord's church have sunk so low as to not be interested in the souls of their own brethren.

I have made the challenge, and I r enew it now.I am willing to meet any preacher in the State of Florida on these "issues," and up until now, I have not received any "takers." I know that brother Mclndoo — DON'T , for he signed propositions andthen backed out. So, I will ask, does Blain really Cook, or has his fire gone out. He says he knowsall the answers, and we have some questions thatneed answering. T hus my challenge goes out to him,even though I am not an experienced debater, butjust a country boy with a Bible, will brother Cook meet and discuss these things with me that wemight have access to this vast storehouse of knowledge he says he has??? WE SHALL SEE!!!

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